Posts by Disillusioned JW

8

Interesting fossil find in Australia

by wozza in

jw
friends

a 95million year old fossil of a new species of crocodile found with a dinosaur in it.s stomach found story here,,,.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-12/broken-dinosaur-killer-croc-ate-dinosaur-for-last-meal/100823384?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link.

well the wts has been lying to the world .because they say no aniimal ate meat before the fairy story flood ,.

Disillusioned JW

Hi Sea Breeze. The idea you stated of the writer of Genesis 1:1 - 2:4 having the idea of the creative days being 24 hours long (and that analysis of the Hebrew text reveals such) is one of the key concepts (one which I learned online from a Seventh-day Adventist) which caused me to abandon belief of the biblical creation account (and by extension, belief in the Bible and in Jehovah/Yahweh God), since such a view is totally at odds and irreconcilable (at least to me) with the scientific geological (including paleontological) evidence. But, I have a question for you. Since you say " virtually every Hebrew scholar in the world agrees that the language and context of the creative days in Genesis were meant to be understood as literal 24 hr. days" what do you think of what is said at https://ncse.ngo/genesis-knows-nothing-scientific-creationism ? What is said in that article (in "Creation/Evolution Journal, Volume 4, No. 2, Spring 1983" of the National Center for Science Education) is the best reconciliation I have ever read of the Bible's creation account with science (including evolutionary science). Had I read of that article 13 years ago (or earlier) I might would remained a Christian (though not a JW), but I would have been a very non-literalist type of Christian.

What do you think of what is said at https://ncse.ngo/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark ? That article overwhelmingly makes it impossible for me to believe most of the biblical details of the story about the Ark and the associated flood, though there is some evidence for a massive local flood that wiped out lush vegetation and a human population about 9,000 to 11,000 years ago, in (or very near) what later became know as Sumeria.

What do you think of the History Channel program (I saw it two days ago on regular antenna broadcast digital TV) called "Decoding The Past: Mysteries of the Garden of Eden"? I think it makes very convincing claims.

54

Do you think the big A will come after Russia invades Ukraine?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

any takers?

.

Disillusioned JW

How about the other big "A" - the Atom bomb? What about a nuclear fusion bomb? I don't think that such will happen as long as the USA and Russian don't directly go to war against each other. But, will they directly go to war against each other?

24

Freaky, unsettling, unnerving comment from Losch in his AGM talk

by FFGhost in

did anybody else catch it?.

he said that people who come back in the earthly resurrection would be given a body "reasonably similar" to the one they had prior to death.. what the almighty hootch?.

"similar"?.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding 'reasonably similar', it is actually very similar wording/idea to a very old WT teaching (except that by saying "reasonably" makes it sound the body would be potentially less similar a body than what the WT formerly said). I was taught it (the older version of the wording/idea) when I was a young child, and I read the same idea later in newer WT literature. It is described in the book (copyright 1974) by the WT called Is This Life all there is? (one of the first books my JW father studied with my sister and I) on pages 170-172. Read especially paragraph 3 of page 1971 and paragraph 1 of page 172.

10

Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils

by Disillusioned JW in

"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.

the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.

modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".

Disillusioned JW

Big news: Some Scientists and some Christian Theologians now claim to have reconciled the concept of human evolution with the story of a literal Adam and Eve! [Note: I had attempted to post this days ago (as part of an attempt to create a new topic), but the post had difficulty uploading from my computer (likely due to technical problems on my computer). After waiting days to see if it would later upload and noticing that it hadn't, I decided to post it here, thinking I that a double post will not be the result. Furthermore, the post in this topic has some revisions.]

The Fox news website (a very non-liberal news site) has an amazing news article that says that some scientists and Christian Theologians now claim to have reconciled the concept of human evolution with the story of a literal Adam and Eve as universal genealogical ancestors of all modern day humans (and even of all humans since the year 1 A.D.)! The article says in part the following. "Many Christians have rejected the scientific theory of evolution in part because they think it rules out the existence of a historical Adam and Eve. Yet some scientists and theologians argue that recent breakthroughs in genetics make a historical Adam and Eve compatible with evolution, and that this development may help bridge what many see as a conflict between faith and science." [Source: https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/christians-point-to-breakthroughs-in-genetics-to-show-adam-and-eve-are-not-incompatible-with-evolution# .] WOW! I encourage theistic evolutionists, evolutionary creationists, non-evolutionist creationists (including young Earth creationists), evolutionist atheists (including those who are ex-Christians), and others to read the news article.

37

Biblical Anachronisms in JW Literature

by neat blue dog in

in a recent post ffghost made a comment about how they're always inserting modern concepts into biblical narratives to make it relatable to jw's organization.

here are some that come to mind:.

- the capitalized term "governing body" when referring to the older men in jerusalem (really just another group of christians that paul outspokenly disagreed with and didn't look to for approval).

Disillusioned JW

Sometimes in the old literature the WT said Jesus didn't have a beard because he was a young man (began his preaching at age 30, according to the Bible), but many males are capable of growing a beard at age 20 and even younger, and Jewish biblical law said Jewish males are not to cut the hair on their face!

10

Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils

by Disillusioned JW in

"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.

the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.

modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".

Disillusioned JW

Besides the above article about a discovery by researchers at the University of Haifa there is an article about an earlier published study involving plant evolution. That earlier article is called "Study Challenges Evolutionary Theory That DNA Mutations Are Random: Findings Could Lead to Advances in Plant Breeding, Human Genetics" (see https://www.ucdavis.edu/food/news/study-challenges-evolutionary-theory-dna-mutations-are-random ). It says in part the following.

' “We always thought of mutation as basically random across the genome,” said Grey Monroe, an assistant professor in the UC Davis Department of Plant Sciences who is lead author on the paper. “It turns out that mutation is very non-random and it’s non-random in a way that benefits the plant. It’s a totally new way of thinking about mutation.”

... Sequencing of those hundreds of Arabidopsis thaliana plants revealed more than 1 million mutations. Within those mutations a nonrandom pattern was revealed, counter to what was expected.

... Instead of randomness they found patches of the genome with low mutation rates. In those patches, they were surprised to discover an over-representation of essential genes, such as those involved in cell growth and gene expression.

... The scientists found that the way DNA was wrapped around different types of proteins was a good predictor of whether a gene would mutate or not. “It means we can predict which genes are more likely to mutate than others and it gives us a good idea of what’s going on,” Weigel said.'

These findings are amazing!

10

Science news articles supporting biological evolution, including by discoveries of fossils

by Disillusioned JW in

"a billion-year-old fossil of an organism, exquisitely preserved in the scottish highlands, reveals features of multicellularity nearly 400 million years before the biological trait emerged in the first animals, according to a new report in the journal current biology by an international team of researchers, including boston college paleobotanist paul k. strother.." see https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/528947 and https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/billion-year-old-fossil-reveals-missing-link-evolution-animals for details.. the first article listed above says the following.. "the microfossil, discovered at loch torridon, contains two distinct cell types and could be the earliest example of complex multicellularity ever recorded, according to the researchers.

the fossil offers new insight into the transition of single celled organisms to complex, multicellular animals.

modern single-celled holozoa include the most basal living animals and the fossil discovered shows an organism which lies somewhere between single cell and multicellular animals, or metazoa.".

Disillusioned JW

News article: "A study by the University of Haifa researchers claims not all genetic mutations of human genes are randomized, challenging neo-Darwinism" (see https://www.jpost.com/science/article-695101 ). It in part says the following amazing thing.

"For the past century, an assumption central to Charles Darwin's evolutionary theory is that mutations are random and accidental and that natural selection favors such accidents. In an article published in the scientific peer-reviewed journal Genome Research, researchers have found the first evidence of non-random mutations in human genes.

Using a new and innovative method, the researchers - led by the University of Haifa's Prof. Adi Livnat - have managed to prove that the rate of generation of the human hemoglobin S (HbS) mutation which protects one from malaria is higher in people from Africa in contrast to people from Europe. In other words, the mutation is not random but rather exists preferentially within the population of Africa where it is more needed."

... ' "Contrary to the widely accepted expectations, the results supported the nonrandom pattern," the University of Haifa announced. "The HbS mutation originated de novo not only much faster than expected from random mutation but also much faster in the population (in sub-Saharan Africans as opposed to Europeans) and in the gene (in the beta-globin as opposed to the control delta-globin gene) where it is of adaptive significance."

These results effectively contradicted the commonly-held random mutation belief held by Darwinists.

“The results suggest that complex information that is accumulated in the genome through the generations impacts mutation, and therefore mutation-specific origination rates can respond in the long-term to specific environmental pressures,” said Prof. Livnat, whose study was funded by a grant given by the John Templeton Foundation. “Mutations may be generated nonrandomly in evolution after all, but not in the way previously conceived. We must study the internal information and how it affects mutation, as it opens the door to evolution being a far bigger process than previously conceived.” '

This is extraordinary. Two weeks ago I really doing research in a large branch of local library about what are possibly the main causes of macroevolution and if it can happen rapidly. I was researching articles from the early 1980s (some of which I read from microfilm and others from digital online archives). In two of the articles a scientist (Peter Williamson) had meticulously examined numerous fossil layers and discovers numerous step by step transitional fossils, showing speciation taking place rapidly (compared to length of geologic times) and the environmentally stressful conditions which triggered it. I was reminded of it when I read the above article. The articles were from 1981.

23

Turning up The Insanity To 11

by FedUpJW in

so a jw elder acquaintance sent me an email "encouraging" me to return to the organization, including this little nugget of a quote from today's wt session,*** w21 november p. 23 par.

11 how strong will your faith be?

***learn to trust those whom jehovah and jesus trust.

Disillusioned JW

Maybe those actions by some elders mean they are seeing a mass exodus of people from their congregations and are thus trying to get people to return.

11

GB Says You Can Fellowship Without Being Reinstated

by Sea Breeze in

there is another way to fellowship with your loved ones after disagreeing with the wt besides getting reinstated.

all you have to do is fling yourself off a boat and start drowning, says watchtower:.

"suppose, then, a member of a christian congregation boating on a lake were to see another boat containing a disfellowshiped person capsize, throwing the disfellowshiped one into the water where he struggled to stay afloat.

Disillusioned JW

I found the following paragraphs from the same WT article (called "Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint Toward Disfellowshiped Ones", as worded in the "Watchtower Library 1999" CD-ROM) as very interesting. Time sure has changed regarding the WT's stated view on disfellowshiping.

"7 If we imitate our heavenly Father we will remember that he even showed certain considerateness toward the first human pair after their disfellowshiping in Eden, providing them with clothing. (Gen. 3:21) This was an undeserved kindness toward them. As Jesus reminded his disciples, Jehovah God "makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous." (Matt. 5:45) The apostle Paul showed that, despite the independent course the Gentile nations took contrary to God's way, Jehovah "did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving [them] rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling [their] hearts to the full with food and good cheer." (Acts 14:16, 17) So, not "mixing in company" with a person, or treating such one as "a man of the nations," does not prevent us from being decent, courteous, considerate and humane."

"21 As to disfellowshiped family members (not minor sons or daughters) living outside the home, each family must decide to what extent they will have association with such ones. This is not something that the congregational elders can decide for them. What the elders are concerned with is that "leaven" is not reintroduced into the congregation through spiritual fellowshiping with those who had to be removed as such "leaven." Thus, if a disfellowshiped parent goes to visit a son or daughter or to see grandchildren and is allowed to enter the Christian home, this is not the concern of the elders. Such a one has a natural right to visit his blood relatives and his offspring. Similarly, when sons or daughters render honor to a parent, though disfellowshiped, by calling to see how such a one's physical health is or what needs he or she may have, this act in itself is not a spiritual fellowshiping."

"22 In some cases where a disfellowshiped parent is aged or in bad health and needs care, the son or daughter might feel it advisable to bring such a parent into the home to fulfill proper filial obligations. So, too, Christian parents of a disfellowshiped son or daughter who is no longer a minor might decide to take such a one back into the home due to that one's having a grave health problem or having been incapacitated in an accident or being in a destitute state financially. These are humanitarian decisions that Christian families must make and the congregational elders are not required to intervene where there is no sound evidence of a reintroduction of a corrupting influence within the congregation."

53

New World Translation is not much different other translations

by Abraham1 in

key scripture 2 timothy 3:16 should have been translated as “every scripture inspired of god is also profitable for teaching” like many other serious translations (such as american standard version ; douay-rheims bible etc) as it is what the greek text says.. this is in harmony with the contents of bible and also with the writer paul himself who knew after his departure ‘even from his own number men will arise and distort the truth.’ (acts 20:29-30) for example, verses such as romans 7:19 is such distortion.

such verses cannot originate from real paul who was “holy, righteous and blameless.” (1 thessalonians 2:10) hence paul had the freeness of speech to tell others to be “blameless” like him (1 thessalonians 5:19-23; ephesians 5:24) there are many things in the scriptures which are not inspired such as words of satan, words of job’s wife and his false friends, words of judas, lot’s daughters …etc.

apostle peter never disowned jesus because if he had done so, his contemporaries would have interrupted him when he rebuked jews, saying: “you disowned the holy and righteous one and asked that a murderer be released to you.“ (acts 3:14) his listeners would have asked him “what right do you have to reprove us for ‘disowning jesus” when you yourself have done it first?” all such verses or accounts were later adoptions.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the source I quoted from about Gundry' s wording, the source seems to be saying that Gundry says that in the context of the passage about the flood "that being taken along has to do with judgment at the Son of Man's coming ...Then being left means being spared from judgment." While that might be the case, I think in regards to Mt. 24:40-41 the being taken along means to be taken with Christ to safety.

The "Disciples' Literal New Testament: Serving Modern Disciples by More Fully Reflecting the Writing Style of the Ancient Disciples", Copyright © 2011 Michael J. Magill, says the following in the translator's note. "Matthew 24:41 Or, taken along... left behind. Some think believers are taken, referring either to protection on earth (as with Noah) or in heaven (through the rapture); unbelievers are left for judgment. Others think unbelievers are taken in judgment, believers are left on earth (like Noah)." [See https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:39-41&version=DLNT .] According to an Amazon.com web page about Magill's NT book, the following is said about the translator. "Michael Magill graduated Valedictorian with a B.A. in Bible from Biola University. He earned an M.Div. in New Testament from Talbot School of Theology, and received the Robert N. Oliver Award in Systematic Theology. He taught Greek at Biola University and Logos Bible Institute."